From btuck@minstrel.com Tue Jul 7 23:45:34 1998 Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:45:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Ben Tucker To: Lis Beaty-Schraer Subject: Re: Update & questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980707213804.0089a100@wubios.wustl.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: BRAVO!!!!!! You're doing very well. I'll put comments in with *** On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Lis Beaty-Schraer wrote: > Hi Owen! > > Well, two hundred years have passed. It's now 700. Rome fell, pretty much > exactly as advertised. Yesterday (first day) the emphasis was on stealing > sheep. Today the emphasis shifted dramatically, to acquiring land. Three > or four alliances have formed, and a couple of shires have been conquered > via warfare. Tomorrow afternoon I plan to throw the Vikings at them. > They're really into it, and very accepting of my response when I find > something isn't working right and I change it, which is that whatever it > was "yesterday" was a hundred years ago and they shouldn't expect prices, > etc. to remain the same. ****** GOOD ANSWER --let me know what you changed, just so I can learn from your perspective. -- feel free to change that which seems like it needs it. > So far nobody has gone for any of the skilled trades/merchant routes. > They've made a couple of inquiries, but seem to think the start-up fees are > too expensive. Will this work itself out, or should I alter the prices? **** It should work itself out -- just before you throw the vikings at them, someone (at least one baron) should be able to get one of them. You can always have games and activities which pay in sheep or gold to add to the money supply if it's growing too slowly. > The same is true of hill forts; there's been some interest but the > resources aren't there, at least not yet. These prices could come down some, then -- if there's been some landtaking and no one is buying, then bring the prices down to where half of the people are building some fortification. > We also don't have too many people working for others yet; most of them > have simply formed alliances, on their own terms, whatever those are. > Right now there's one serf (he got caught stealing a sheep and didn't have > enough sheep to pay the penalty, so the would-be victim took his land and > made him a serf) and one retainer, and a couple of knights. At the end of > the day today somebody finally met the requirement to be king, so starting > tomorrow there will be a king. serfs are rare as players, but we don't want people knocked out of the game entirely. It's a status to avoid, this just means they are thinking ahead. > I'm having trouble explaining to the kids the difference between serfs and > retainers. Do retainers get to own land or not? And what about serfs--I > know they can't own land, but their lord has to pay them one sheep per > turn; do they get to try and grow a herd? The kids asked also if they > could steal sheep from the king. retainers who own land are knights. serfs get to own sheep, but sheep don't reproduce without land -- the sheep the serfs get is food. but if the serfs negotiate with the lord for the right to graze their sheep on the baronial lands, then .... > There have been some disagreements about sheep being stolen when someone is > arranging battles, consulting with me, etc. I suggested they call a > council of the realm if they thought they needed some rules about that. I > suspect that will happen tomorrow, as the idea seemed to appeal but it was > too late today to do it. ****AGAIN, this is exactly the correct thing. Use this opportunity to talk about common law, and show them some of the Anglo-Saxon laws, wereguild, etc. > Also, so far I see a distinct advantage to the attacker when they battle; > the attacker both times has had more resources and scored a pretty decisive > victory. I told them they could only participate in one attack per turn > and they could only capture one shire at a time; is that too stringent or > about right? *****Sounds good to me. remind the defenders (just before the vikings appear) that castles change these odds significantly.) You can also allow defenders 1 minute to buy swords if an attack is launched on their shire, but before they know how many soldiers the other player has, and shires with neighbors could be allowed to go to the aid of (defend from outside the castle) the besieged shire. > Overall, though, it seems to be going really well. We'll have a challenge > tomorrow because I'm getting a new student (he didn't like space academy so > his dad asked if he could transfer to ancient academy...) I think I'll > give him a sword and suggest he try to become a knight, to start with. ****Make him the viking, give him enough soldiers and gold so he can punch a landing in Essex and/or Yorkshire. ______*______ ) ) Ben Tucker Owen Alun @ )_____________) & (612) 872-2201 Wandering Minstrel \----------|-----------/ 2111 11th Ave. S Northshield, Midrealm \_btuck@minstrel.com_/ Minneapolis, MN 55404 The wild men of Wales Are the men that God made mad, For all their wars are happy -- And all their songs are sad. (from The Ballad of the White Horse -- Chesterton) From btuck@minstrel.com Sun Jul 12 19:22:08 1998 Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 19:22:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Ben Tucker To: Lis Beaty-Schraer Subject: Re: Update & questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980708175828.00852d60@wubios.wustl.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Sorry I didn't respond sooner, off running the W&W event this weekend. It sounds like you're making the right kind of choices -- I hope they worked out -- If you need to discuss anything more specific, I'll be home tonight and tomorrow night. (and as always, checking email frequently). Owen On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Lis Beaty-Schraer wrote: > Well, we didn't get to the Vikings today, because we had interpersonal > difficulties and I decided we needed a break to let emotions cool down a bit. > > A group of boys have formed an alliance. Yesterday they decided to attack > one of the girls (mostly, I think, because she had more shires than anyone > else). They succeeded in the attack, and today they attacked another of > her shires, again successfully. At that point she got very upset (poor > sport). The new king (who is great for the role, btw--takes it seriously > and tries really hard to be fair to everyone!) called a council, but they > didn't resolve anything--some kids thought it unfair that someone get > attcked twice in a row, others saw no problem with it. At that point > personalities were entering into it so I called a halt for the day. > > Things I think I will tweak: > > -Some of the girls are uninterested in the raid/attack aspects. I think > I'm going to give them the opportunity to become merchants/tradespeople > cheap. Then they won't be susceptible to raids, but can just get involved > in commerce. Since we don't have commerce yet anyway, that would be a good > way to get some. > > -Reading through all the versions of the rules, I think I've been too > lenient about attacks. I'm going to start charging them to attack each > other (after all, going to war costs money), and also make some rules about > who can attack whom. Only adjoining shires, and only allying with > neighbors. After all, armies didn't come from across the country at the > time they're at right now. > > -I'm thinking I need to put limits on how much they can do during a turn, > and put strict time limits on the turns. They got so into it the first > couple of days that I let that slide, and we can't afford the time anyway > if we're to get our other projects done. > > -When the Vikings invade tomorrow, they're going to hit the alliance > leader's land. (He has Cornwall, so it's logical.) We'll see what that > does to things... > > The boys/girls split worries me a little. I think letting those interested > fill the available merchant slots easily might help that a lot. They can > go on their way, stay out of the raids, quietly accumulate their > wealth...and the more aggressive and bloodthirsty kids can attack each > other till they have nothing left...more or less what happened in period. > > Any other suggestions? > > Elasait > > > ______*______ ) ) Ben Tucker Owen Alun @ )_____________) & (612) 872-2201 Wandering Minstrel \----------|-----------/ 2111 11th Ave. S Northshield, Midrealm \_btuck@minstrel.com_/ Minneapolis, MN 55404 The wild men of Wales Are the men that God made mad, For all their wars are happy -- And all their songs are sad. (from The Ballad of the White Horse -- Chesterton) From btuck@minstrel.com Mon Jul 13 18:28:51 1998 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:28:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Ben Tucker To: Lis Beaty-Schraer Subject: Re: Update & questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980713174606.007936f0@wubios.wustl.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Lis Beaty-Schraer wrote: > Figured that out right after I sent the message...how'd it go? 887 people, it ran on schedule, and I think well under budget, people had a good time, only one thing that required both autocrats to be involved at the same time. (Everything else was under the general rules of engagement for staff, they needed approvals but not consultations). > OK, I'm about to do the Norman Invasion. How do I do that? Does William > come in and reorganize everything? William is you. The areas he conquers become norman areas, the people he conquers become his vassals. If the king survives, he stays king, if the normans get a majority of the shires (they probably won't) the norman barons choose one of their own to be king). The only reason William won was because they happened to kill Harold G. > The kids and I are getting real confused about commerce, to wit: > > We have a mint now (he decided it would be more profitable than being a > baron so he sold off his title). We also have a merchant. One bullion = > one gold? And where does the merchant get bullion--from overseas, with > part of the fleece? Commerce is confusing. "The just price" and "usury" were serious detriments to the medieval economy -- Buy bullion for fleece and sell it to the coinmaker at a profit (I forget what the ratio was -- I'm pretty sure that's in the rules, though) the coinmaker gets a cut of the Value Added for Bullion to Coin (especially on the 10 G coins) so both make out like bandits. It's more profitable for both of them then importing coins from Flanders (You of course are Flanders). > Also, I'm having a lot of trouble working grain into the economy. There is > someone who wants to buy a mill now, so I need to figure that part out... Grain feeds people or herds -- if you feed people grain, then you don't loose sheep to food. It's if nothing else, an additional source of revenue, and a legitimate way to pay taxes. Though, again there's a reason I call this the sheep game -- England's economy is driven by wool not grain -- grain is what drove the French economy). > Quite a few of the subjects of the realm are getting upset at the king, > because he keeps raising taxes so he can afford to build fortifications (on > his own land, of course!) I think Runnymede will happen on or even before > schedule... It'll take about a turn from when they decide they want to before they'll have the mechanism to do it -- it'll be right on time if the conquest is tomorrow (they'll both loose too much money to do it the turn after the invasion, and the king will still have more soldiers than anyone else if he's smart about things. > What if they want to overthrow the king? How do they do that? Or will it > matter after the Norman Invasion? Ah! How to control the king? That is of course precisely what the high middle ages was about, wasn't it? There are no set rules for this, that's precisely the point. The Duke can do that legitimately, the rest can do it by consensus -- Runnymede was outside the rules -- the council of the realm can try to convince the king to abdicate (bribe/payoff) or the rest of them can gang up on him and surround him so he can't retreat and then attack the shire he's in. > BTW, a number of people have come in to see how this works, and asked if > you're planning on publishing it! It's got real potential. I'd like to, I was hoping to pick your brain as/after you finish to polish up the rules and description. My sense of it as you have noticed is somewhat tangled. I have a sense of what I want, but I always adapt the rules of games I run to make them do what I want them to do. Again, I'm quite impressed with how well you're doing. ______*______ ) ) Ben Tucker Owen Alun @ )_____________) & (612) 872-2201 Wandering Minstrel \----------|-----------/ 2111 11th Ave. S Northshield, Midrealm \_btuck@minstrel.com_/ Minneapolis, MN 55404 The wild men of Wales Are the men that God made mad, For all their wars are happy -- And all their songs are sad. (from The Ballad of the White Horse -- Chesterton) From btuck@minstrel.com Mon Jul 13 22:52:13 1998 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:52:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Ben Tucker To: Lis Beaty-Schraer Subject: Re: Update & questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980713220805.0087ac50@wubios.wustl.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Lis Beaty-Schraer wrote: > I don't think the battles are working quite right. How does fatality > happen--just roll an unadjusted "one"? As for the soldiers...how many > soldiers should William have? The kids, IF they all act together (big if) > can command about 30, with mercenaries and all, unless they buy more. The > king doesn't actually have much of an army...but he does have a stone > castle. Well then, we know where the Normans will attack -- they should have an army that is just smaller than everything the kids can throw into it if they unite. (The main thing that the conquest did was to wipe the treasury of England clean). Roll an unadjusted one and that soldier dies (and the sword goes away). this applies even in the castle. The theory being that with moderately superior numbers the larger side should have a good chance of prevailing in an unfortified location, while with a fortification, it should take about 2-1 or better to conquer -- BTW, if you want, those players who wish to side with the Normans may -- especially if they don't like the king. -- but if the king wins, then they will be subject to the will of the council of the realm (and you can teach about "royal wrath"). > So the Duke can challenge the king if he wants, but the rest have to figure > it out on their own. OK. We have one kid being paid what amounts to > Danegeld (i.e. he pays lower taxes) because he told the king he'd overthrow > him otherwise. Since he's not that powerful on his own, I wouldn't have > bought it, but then I'm not eleven years old either. If he aids William he might become the king. That would set up the rivalry for the hundred years war fairly nicely. (HYW and WOR are usually essentially a North-South dynastic struggle in this scenario). > We *did* have to have a little talk with the king and remind him that he's > only king when the game is going on, not at lunch or recess... Hehe. I had that same problem -- I appointed the King line leader and the Duke the light and door person. Marched 'em in precedence order. ______*______ ) ) Ben Tucker Owen Alun @ )_____________) & (612) 872-2201 Wandering Minstrel \----------|-----------/ 2111 11th Ave. S Northshield, Midrealm \_btuck@minstrel.com_/ Minneapolis, MN 55404 The wild men of Wales Are the men that God made mad, For all their wars are happy -- And all their songs are sad. (from The Ballad of the White Horse -- Chesterton) From btuck@minstrel.com Wed Jul 15 08:44:00 1998 Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:43:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Ben Tucker To: Lis Beaty-Schraer Subject: Re: Ending it In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980715073844.0079f100@wubios.wustl.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Lis Beaty-Schraer wrote: > Okay, by the time I get your answer to this we'll have four turns left. > How does it end? (Besides having a giant debriefing.) We *should* be at > 1200 today but we're a little behind that...I'm still dealing with fallout > from the Norman invasion. (The Normans took the Pevensey area but it would > take us forever and a day to fight over each shire, so I offered a deal.) 1) In 1650 Cromwell will end the game (and one of the students will volunteer for the position), or 2) you can simply end it with Elizabeth, -- "we play up to 1600". at that point, the merchants will control the balance of power. The game doesn't have "a winner" and "a loser" the moderator should recognize those people who have played most in the spirit of the game. The players should vote on "most chivalric," "most cooperative," "person I would have liked to have had as king," etc. --Invent a bunch of these for the class to vote on and then knight everyone. ______*______ ) ) Ben Tucker Owen Alun @ )_____________) & (612) 872-2201 Wandering Minstrel \----------|-----------/ 2111 11th Ave. S Northshield, Midrealm \_btuck@minstrel.com_/ Minneapolis, MN 55404 The wild men of Wales Are the men that God made mad, For all their wars are happy -- And all their songs are sad. (from The Ballad of the White Horse -- Chesterton) From btuck@minstrel.com Wed Jun 10 00:12:45 1998 Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 00:12:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Ben Tucker To: Lis Beaty-Schraer Subject: Re: Sheep Game Stuff (FInally) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980609062624.0089d420@wubios.wustl.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: > Oh, please, oh, please! The class is coming up (well, it's not till July > 6, but in my lexicon that's practically tomorrow, since the entire Lilies > War and a possible run to Cooper's Lake with Morgana intervene!) Also, I > have a question: the "Tales of King Arthur" movie that you used--any > suggestions on where it can be found? I'll mail you my copy if you promise to return it. It's from A&E some years back, and I've never seen anything else as good. I usually showed only some of it (my format only gave me a limited time for the film so I had to chop) the whole thing is good, however. Ben Here's a hopefully clearer set of rules. Please ask questions about them if you need clarification on how to use them. The Sheep Game V4b2 (c) 1998 Ben Tucker The Sheep Game consists of a scenario for role playing that focuses on the macro level economic and political aspects of the Middle Ages and Renaissance (450-1600). The scenario was originally designed to be played out on a map of England showing the Domesday book shire boundaries, (including the Scottish counties) and in Wales, the Cantrefs. A variant (for 30+ people or for adults) is also described which breaks each of these areas into 2-5 fields). London is treated as a separate space. Each player represents a family, with turns representing 25 years (approximately a generation). The rules of the game change to reflect differing conditions through the period of study. General rules of the game: 1. The moderator must be present in the room at all times the game is being played. 2. The moderator will declare the game in play and not in play. Official game actions may only take place while the game is in play. 3. The rules of the game can change. It is the players' responsibility to keep track of these changes. 4. The players may ask the moderator for rules clarification, but this should be deferred to interpretation by the leader (king, etc.) when possible. 5. Information in the moderator's notes should not be shared with the players unless they ask a specific question. Start: Each player starts in control of one cleared manor (their farm). This may be chosen by turns or randomly. [simple rule: shires treated as manors] A farm produces wheat and sheep. The amount of wheat and sheep that a farm produces may change, and circumstances may mean different farms could produce different amounts. Each player starts with a herd of sheep, some swords, several sacks of grain, and some gold coins. These should be concrete manipulatives: sheep are cotton balls, swords are pieces of pipe cleaner, grain is beads, and coins are sequins or dance-belt-coins. [advanced rules: each shire is composed of several (2-7) farms -- lordship of the shire is determined by control (of land or votes of landowners or the king)] Initial Setup: [simple form] Sheep Grain Gold Swords Barons (Nobles) 12 20 3 1-2 Freemen (Farmers) 7 12 1 0 10% of the class should be Barons, the rest should be farmers. The position of Count (aka Bretwalda/Dux Bellorum) is elected by the Barons. If they elect one of their own to the position, that person becomes king and the position becomes hereditary. The person who is chosen to be count the first turn gets: Sheep Grain Gold Swords Count (War Leader) 0 0 4 25% of class size It is possible to take control of (or lose control of) a farm through sale or through combat. Any field which is not owned by anybody may be claimed. If nobody successfully disputes the claim by the end of the turn, then that field belongs to the claimant. (sort of like in the game Risk[tm]). NB: London is a free space, not controllable by any one person. Enfeoffment: Barons and the King/Queen and the Duke can make knights by granting a farm, a sword, and a horse to any player. That player, if a farmer, may retain any other farm(s) s/he has. Responsibility for paying royal taxes on enfeoffed land remains with the donor -- they have to get the taxes from the Knight. The King/Queen may also be grant the title "Prince/ss" to one or more of their Knights if they so desire, which puts them in line for the throne. Players: FARMERS-Staying alive costs 2 sheep (or 1 gold) per turn to Moderator. If you cannot pay, you become a serf serving whichever Freeman, Seigneur, Baron, Duke, or King pays for you (at the Freeman rate). Freemen may carry swords, and may fight whenever they choose to. SERF: always attached to a Seigneur (overlord) Serfs may be traded from one Seigneur to another. Serfs earn one sheep per turn from the Seigneur. The Seigneur may grant retainer status to a Serf. Serfs may not own swords, though they may own shields. Serfs may only be used as soldiers in defense, and every other turn in attack (though some may be used one turn and some the next). RETAINERS: must give at least 4 sheep to someone who willingly accepts them. This person becomes their seigneur. Retainers may keep their reduced herd and attempt to profit thereby. Retainers are paid one sheep per turn by the Seigneur. Retainers may not carry swords, though they may carry shields. Retainers may only be used as soldiers in defense, and every other turn in attack (though some may be used one turn and some the next). A retainer who is given (and accepts) a sword and a grant of land becomes a knight. KNIGHTS: Freemen may seek service with a Baron, Count, Duke, or King. If one of these is willing to give them a sword, they become a knight. In exchange for a commitment to fight for whenever asked, the knight receives the sword (for free), one sheep per turn from their Lord, and a guarantee of protection (the Baron will help defend the knight's sheep). A knight can only be freed of his obligation by 1) Sale of the nobility 2) Mutual agreement with the Baron 3) The consent of the king 4) The consent of all the other Barons Knights may participate in the Council of the Realm, but must vote in agreement with their Baron if he so requests. A Knight may not become a seigneur while in service to a Baron. SEIGNEURS: must pay one sheep to each Serf or Retainer they have. Seigneurs must be Freemen. A Seigneur receives two extra sheep per serf or retainer per turn from the moderator. Any Seigneur who is not a Baron becomes a Baron in their second turn as a Seigneur. Seigneurs may sell freedom to retainers and sell retainership to serfs. BARON: Barons are responsible for the upkeep of the realm. Barons must each pay the count 2 gold per turn. When there is a king, they must pay the king's taxes. Only a Baron or better may have knights. Knights must provide their Baron two sheep per turn. A Baron receives two extra sheep per serf or one sheep per retainer per turn from the moderator. Barons may sell freedom to retainers and sell retainership to serfs. The barons may choose who gets to be count as long as the count is a freeman or better. A Baron may sell his/her Estates, with retainers and serfs attached (knights are free to go or stay). The Baron then becomes a freeman. COUNT: The count is the only one who can command the army. If the count does not call the army, individuals can choose to fight or not. The army may only be called to attack another country, or to defend the realm from another country's attack. If the count is present and fighting, then all soldiers fight better (+1 to roll). If the count is also a Baron, then the count becomes king/queen. The count is paid a fixed rate per turn by the Barons. The count cannot be both merchant and count at the same time. The count is not allowed to keep sheep. (Unless he becomes king). The count cannot have serfs or retainers, but may have knights. If the person chosen to be Count is a baron then they become King/Queen. If the count dies in battle, a new count may be chosen. KING/QUEEN:The royal household, once established, retains the position of count unless it cannot make payment or abdicates. The king/queen must approve of any sale of a Baron's lands, but must allow someone to buy them, if a Baron wishes to sell. The king/queen may levy taxes of up to 4 gold per turn from the Barons, but may ask for less -- this is instead of the count's fixed rate. The King/Queen is responsible for the collection of all taxes owed the moderator, and the payment of the cost of the upkeep of the kingdom. The cost of upkeep is variable over time. It starts at 1 gold per 2 students in the class per turn. The King/Queen must be paid the taxes they levy on the Barons of their realm. These taxes are initially set by the king/queen. The King may grant the right to be a "DUKE" to one player. The Duke (if there is one) has the right to collect taxes for the King. The Duke can set their own tax rate. If a Baron is in Fealty to the Duke (as opposed to the King), then the Baron pays the rate that the Duke sets for taxes (up to 3 gold per turn per Baron in Fealty). NB: The Duke pays taxes as per the following chart to the king, who can use them to pay the moderator. Duke or not, # other barons Duke must pay king/queenKing/queen must in kingdom (if there is a duke) pay moderator 1 2 10 2 4 15 3 6 20 4 8 25 5 10 30 The King/queen may sell the dukedom for whatever s/he can get for it. Once sold, it cannot be taken back unless the Duke cannot make payment or abdicates. If the King/Queen dies the duke may try to claim the crown. The King may appoint heirs to the royal line (Knights in service to the king/queen may be appointed princes/princesses). If the king/queen dies, the senior prince/ss becomes king/queen unless the Duke successfully contests their claim to the crown. On the death of the king, the Duke may challenge the senior Prince or Princess for the throne if he wishes. In this case, the Barons are free to choose sides. (The knights must follow their Barons) [simple form: The Council of the Realm consists of all Freemen or better ] Decisions concerning war must have the approval of the Count and one Baron with at least 50% overall supporting. Status Chart of Characters: King/Queen Duke Count Baron Barons and up may hire mercenaries Seigneur Knight Knights and up cannot run business Freeman-Merchant Only Freemen can run a Businesses Freeman-Shepherd Only Freemen or better may own swords Apprentice/Retainer Apprentice and down cannot run business Serf [advanced rule: The owner of a manor which is on the boundary of two different baronies may change the barony that it is in, if no one successfully disputes it through combat. [advanced rules: Claim is made by placing an armed force on the manor at the beginning of the turn. If it is the only force there at the end of the turn, it has been successfully claimed. A claimed manor must always have an armed force of at least one. (NB: this last is not a requirement in the basic rules but is a darn good idea). [advanced rules: Control of a shire confers the title of Baron. Control can be through ownership or through declared support of other owners. The owner of each manor must declare who they want as baron. If there is no majority, there is no baron. If there is a Baron, the Baron may supply the necessary armed force for the shire at his castle, and the tenants do not *have* to maintain an armed force on each farm. [advanced rules: The Baron is the person who controls the majority of the manors (cleared land) in a Barony. The Baron, once established remains baron unless overthrown. The Baron is responsible for defending the manors of the Barony against hostile claims. [advanced rules: The owners of manors in the Barony must pay taxes to the Baron at the customary rate (the Baron may ask for less). This rate is set by the Council of the Realm. [advanced rules: The Council of the Realm is initially all those who control at least one shire (own the majority of the manors or have the support of a majority of the tenants). The council may change the rules of membership, may enact rules of the realm, and other things. The Council must declare a meeting to act. The council should set rules for how a meeting is declared. [advanced rules: A Count may be designated to defend the Realm against foreign invaders. Each Baron may vote. end advanced rules] ********* Economics: There are three measures of currency: wheat, sheep and gold. Some things can only be paid in gold. Wheat is used to keep sheep and men alive inside a castle, to feed the herds in winter, and to feed people during the daily round. Economics: There are three measures of currency: sheep, wheat, and gold. Some things can only be paid in gold. Sheep are susceptible to raid, plague, harsh winters, and other effects. However, sheep reproduce and can increase your wealth. Sheep can also be corralled inside a castle during a raid. Wheat feeds both sheep and men, it is a valuable crop, but is susceptible to war and weather. Wheat gives both food and grain (for future crops). Wheat must be grown during each turn. The amount harvested will vary depending on how well the land is farmed, what the weather is like, and other effects. Gold has a fixed value and is not susceptible to theft (it can be kept locked up), but gold does not reproduce (unfortunately :) Sheep can be traded for gold. If there is no mint, the moderator will trade sheep for gold, and gold for sheep at the following rates: No Mint and No Merchant 4 sheep for 1 gold, 1 gold for 2 sheep No Mint or No Merchant 3 sheep for 1 gold, 1 gold for 2 sheep Each shire will support a maximum of 20 sheep, it may be seeded with up to 10 bushels of grain. (These numbers may need to be tweaked to produce the right effect based on the number of players). Each shire rolls 3d6 for the return on grain: 3 get 90% of seed back 4 get 100% of seed back 5 get 200% of seed back 6 get 300% of seed back 7 get 400% of seed back 8 get 500% of seed back 9 get 600% of seed back 10-15 get 700% of seed back 16-17 get 800% of seed back 18 get 900% of seed back each sheep eats 3 grain a year. Optional rule: each shire rolls seperately for value, or moderator can roll for whole country, or each person's holdings. [advanced rules: Manorialism: Each manor contains a number of fields. How many and what kind they are are unknown until the manor is claimed. Fields come in three types: Forest, Meadow, Farmland. The owner of the manor makes decisions about what will be done with the fields in it. Forest and meadow may be hunted for wild game with the permission of the owner, subject to restriction by the Council of the Realm. The forest may be cut down by two serfs or two hired freemen (nobles can't do this). This takes a full turn, and the persons doing this cannot do anything else during that turn. Free laborers may also be hired for this from the moderator (charged at double the Mercenary rate). A cut down forest is a meadow. A meadow may be grazed every year (at sustainable levels). A meadow may be cleared (burned down) whether or not it is grazed. (There is no charge to do this, but it must be declared during the preceeeding turn that this will be done). A meadow will support 10 sheep. A cleared meadow is farmland. Farmland may be planted as Cropland. Crops may be harvested at the end of each turn. Each successive turn the yield drops 15%. Farmland may be planted as Pasture. Pasture feeds 20 sheep the first year Each successive year it is used as pasture the yield drops two sheep Farmland is Fallow if it is not used for growing crops or for pasture. Land left fallow becomes meadow. Meadow or Farmland planted with trees becomes Forest after two turns. Farmland planted with trees becomes meadow after one turn. Fields produce various things depending on the type of field and which field it is. The amount of produce from a field may change, and different fields may produce different amounts at the same time. end adv. rules] Any player who loses ownership of all their manors or who cannot pay their taxes must enter the service of someone who can employ them (they become a Knight, Apprentice, Retainer, Etc.). Taxation: Every person in the game is required to pay taxes. Taxes pay for the costs of keeping the roads repaired, defending against invaders, having tournaments and festivals, and not least, feeding the people of the realm. A Farmer must pay 1/7 of his crop every year to the Baron of the Barony If there is no Baron, then he must pay 1/10 to the Moderator. A Baron must pay the taxes that the king demands, if there is a king. If there is no king, the barons are responsible for paying the count. The Barons determine how much they will pay the count... BARON: Barons are responsible for the upkeep of the realm in the absence of a king. Barons must each pay the count 2 gold per turn, or when there is a king, they must pay the king's taxes. The Count must provision all the soldiers that the kingdom needs to defend itself. He may supply them with weapons and/or horses. if there are not enough citizens of the realm available, he may hire mercenaries. The King is responsible for collecting all taxes due to the moderator. S/he is responsible also for the count's obligations. The Merchants must pay 1/10 of their income to the King, in addition, if they received start-up money from someone else, they must pay any agreed-upon amounts to those people as well. Everyone is also required to pay the Moderator at least 2 wheat and 1 sheep per turn for the food they ate, above and beyond the taxes owed. Commerce (make the merchants prepare the manipulatives in some way). Mint: To get into the Minting business costs 40 gold. The mint sells coins to other players at the rate of 5 fleeces for a one gold coin, 50 fleeces for a 10 gold coin. The mint sells coins to other players at the rate of two sheep per one gold coin, 20 per ten gold coin. Sheep can only be fleeced if they are grouped in tens when they are brought to the mint. The moderator will not trade in fleeces, only sheep: if there is no merchant there is no market for fleece. The mint buys its raw materials from the moderator or from the Merchant. Costs:from the moderator: Bullion to make coinscost 4 sheep per unit (one unit can make one coin, either a 1 gold or a 10 gold) from the merchant: 3 one gold coins for 4 units or 5 fleece per unit The mint owner pays the moderator 2 gold/turn for food & clothing. The mint may employ apprentices (at whatever rate is agreed to, payable by the mint). The mint can make two types of coin: 1 gold coins and 10 gold coins. Only the chief coinmaker can make 10 gold coins. The mint can only make a total value of 100 gold per turn. Any one coinmaker can only make (n) coins per turn. Armoring: there is a limited supply of weapons until there is an armorer swords cost 2 gold each from the moderator shields cost 1 gold each from the moderator As the armorer may not keep sheep, s/he must be paid in gold coin. The moderator stops selling armor when the armorer starts up. To get into the armoring business costs 30 gold Metal to make swords costs the armorer 3 gold per 2 units from the moderator or 1 gold per unit from the Merchant The armorer pays the moderator 2 gold/turn for food and clothing. The Armorer may employ an apprentice (at whatever rate is agreed to, payable by the armorer) an apprentice armorer must work full time for the armorer and will produce (n) item parts per turn. Swords take two parts, shields take one part. The armorer may change his prices with the approval of the Council of the Realm. Merchant: To be the merchant you must have a boat. a boat costs 20 gold. The merchant can collect goods within the kingdom for sale overseas for a five minute period, once per turn. The Merchant buys fleece from the Mint, or Sheep from the Shepherds He pays 1 gold for 2 sheep or 1 bullion piece for 5 fleeces He may not keep a herd of sheep. The merchant cannot fleece sheep him/herself. The merchant cannot mint his/her own coins from bullion The Merchant sells metal to the armorer at 1 gold per unit. The moderator will buy all the fleece that the merchant brings to him at a variable rate: 2d6 per 10 sheep (no fraction purchases) 2-31 gold 4-62 gold 7-93 gold 10-114 gold 125 gold The price should be determined after transport, before sale, but should not be revealed to the wool merchant unless s/he asks for this information (Speculation in commodities: i.e. holding goods for sale is legit, but must be discovered). Storage of wool overseas (if the player wishes to speculate) costs 1 gold/10 sheep/turn. The Merchant pays the moderator 2 gold/turn for food and clothing. The Miller flour from wheat. The miller must have a mill. A Mill costs 20 gold to build. The miller buys grain for ___ and sells the flour for ____. The miller can make 6 bags of flour from 7 bags of grain. If this work is done by hand the yield is 3 bags of flour for 4 bags of grain. The Mason builds castles: To be the Mason does not cost anything up front but requires experience and the ability to gather a work party. To be a Mason, you employ workers: Wooden hill forts take one turn and two people to build. Stone Castles take one turn and four people or two turns and two people. The wage you pay must be negotiated with the workers. The workers must be freemen before you hire them. The Mason cannot be a noble.(Remember that serfs and retainers can become free). The Mason (designer) must have designed a Hill fort or worked on a Stone Castle before s/he can design a stone castle. Cost to Build: What it does for you: Wooden Hill Fort 50 gold If defending in the fort 3 minimum defenders. Multiply army x 2 holds 50 sheep. Wooden forts must be rebuilt after an attack (whoever wins). Cost is 10 gold to rebuild. Forts must be rebuilt within 50 years (two turns) of the attack, or they must be rebuilt from scratch. Stone Castle 100 gold If defending the fort 10 minimum defenders.Multiply army x 3 holds 200 sheep Stone castles must be rebuild after each successful attack. (When the defender loses). Cost is 20 Gold. Castles not rebuilt become Hill Forts. Castles may be rebuilt at any time before they are attacked again. If they are attacked twice before being rebuilt they must be rebuilt entirely. Sheep in a castle cannot be stolen unless the castle is defeated. Sheep outside the castle can be taken at the rate of one sheep/battle/person in the battle who survives the fight. ***** Combat: 1d6 per soldier (player or mercenary) +1 for has a sword +1 for has a shield +1 for each soldier under direct command of the Count/King + additional for anyone in a fort who is defending. (Note that any given soldier (including the count) count can only fight in one shire per turn). Sum the totals for both sides, a 1 on a die (uncorrected) indicates a fatality. The total carries the field in that round. Attackers may continue to attack as many times as they wish but may not bring in reinforcements until the next turn. If the attacker outscores the defender they take posession of the shire [or manor in the advanced rules]. Players may seek single combat if they wish (on whatever terms they agree to) but they cannot seek single combat and be counted for the castle attack or defense at the same time. ______*______ ) ) Ben Tucker Owen Alun @ )_____________) & (612) 872-2201 Wandering Minstrel \----------|-----------/ 2111 11th Ave. S Northshield, Midrealm \_btuck@minstrel.com_/ Minneapolis, MN 55404 The wild men of Wales Are the men that God made mad, For all their wars are happy -- And all their songs are sad. (from The Ballad of the White Horse -- Chesterton) From btuck@minstrel.com Wed Jun 10 12:57:40 1998 Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:57:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Ben Tucker To: Lis Beaty-Schraer Subject: Re: Sheep Game Stuff (FInally) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980610115754.0084b930@wubios.wustl.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, Lis Beaty-Schraer wrote: > At 08:19 AM 6/10/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I can send it down, possibly with someone who is going. Gareth from Nevermore will have them for you. > > > >Ben > > > > Great...thanks! Another question: How long should a "turn" last? I had > envisioned about 45 minutes in the morning for one "turn" and 45 in the > afternoon for a second one, for a total of ten during the two weeks...but I > had also thought one turn could cover about 50 years, not 25 as your e-mail > says. Would that work? Time constraints and all... Time scale is more important for flow of events than it is for game play. 50 years is fine, just call it two turns in 45 minutes instead of one. This will limit you to one major event/activity per two turns with one intervention maximum per turn (Normans invade, for example). Plan out the interventions and actvities that you want to cover against your time scale. (I ran the class within the game rather than the other way around). ______*______ ) ) Ben Tucker Owen Alun @ )_____________) & (612) 872-2201 Wandering Minstrel \----------|-----------/ 2111 11th Ave. S Northshield, Midrealm \_btuck@minstrel.com_/ Minneapolis, MN 55404 The wild men of Wales Are the men that God made mad, For all their wars are happy -- And all their songs are sad. (from The Ballad of the White Horse -- Chesterton) From lis@wubios.wustl.edu Tue Jul 7 21:57:42 1998 Return-Path: lis@wubios.wustl.edu Received: from wubios.wustl.edu (wubios.wustl.edu [128.252.117.1]) by poet.minstrel.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA06599 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:57:41 -0500 Received: from folkvangar.highoak.net ([128.252.211.209]) by wubios.wustl.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA23064 Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:57:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980707213804.0089a100@wubios.wustl.edu> X-Sender: lis@wubios.wustl.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 21:38:04 -0500 To: Ben Tucker From: Lis Beaty-Schraer Subject: Update & questions In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980416211555.00864a00@wubios.wustl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Status: RO X-Status: A Hi Owen! Well, two hundred years have passed. It's now 700. Rome fell, pretty much exactly as advertised. Yesterday (first day) the emphasis was on stealing sheep. Today the emphasis shifted dramatically, to acquiring land. Three or four alliances have formed, and a couple of shires have been conquered via warfare. Tomorrow afternoon I plan to throw the Vikings at them. They're really into it, and very accepting of my response when I find something isn't working right and I change it, which is that whatever it was "yesterday" was a hundred years ago and they shouldn't expect prices, etc. to remain the same. So far nobody has gone for any of the skilled trades/merchant routes. They've made a couple of inquiries, but seem to think the start-up fees are too expensive. Will this work itself out, or should I alter the prices? The same is true of hill forts; there's been some interest but the resources aren't there, at least not yet. We also don't have too many people working for others yet; most of them have simply formed alliances, on their own terms, whatever those are. Right now there's one serf (he got caught stealing a sheep and didn't have enough sheep to pay the penalty, so the would-be victim took his land and made him a serf) and one retainer, and a couple of knights. At the end of the day today somebody finally met the requirement to be king, so starting tomorrow there will be a king. I'm having trouble explaining to the kids the difference between serfs and retainers. Do retainers get to own land or not? And what about serfs--I know they can't own land, but their lord has to pay them one sheep per turn; do they get to try and grow a herd? The kids asked also if they could steal sheep from the king. There have been some disagreements about sheep being stolen when someone is arranging battles, consulting with me, etc. I suggested they call a council of the realm if they thought they needed some rules about that. I suspect that will happen tomorrow, as the idea seemed to appeal but it was too late today to do it. Also, so far I see a distinct advantage to the attacker when they battle; the attacker both times has had more resources and scored a pretty decisive victory. I told them they could only participate in one attack per turn and they could only capture one shire at a time; is that too stringent or about right? Overall, though, it seems to be going really well. We'll have a challenge tomorrow because I'm getting a new student (he didn't like space academy so his dad asked if he could transfer to ancient academy...) I think I'll give him a sword and suggest he try to become a knight, to start with. Elasait From lis@wubios.wustl.edu Wed Jul 8 18:03:53 1998 Return-Path: lis@wubios.wustl.edu Received: from wubios.wustl.edu (wubios.wustl.edu [128.252.117.1]) by poet.minstrel.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09568 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:03:52 -0500 Received: from folkvangar.highoak.net ([128.252.211.214]) by wubios.wustl.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA27856 Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:03:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980708175828.00852d60@wubios.wustl.edu> X-Sender: lis@wubios.wustl.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 17:58:28 -0500 To: Ben Tucker From: Lis Beaty-Schraer Subject: Re: Update & questions In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980707213804.0089a100@wubios.wustl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Status: RO X-Status: A Well, we didn't get to the Vikings today, because we had interpersonal difficulties and I decided we needed a break to let emotions cool down a bit. A group of boys have formed an alliance. Yesterday they decided to attack one of the girls (mostly, I think, because she had more shires than anyone else). They succeeded in the attack, and today they attacked another of her shires, again successfully. At that point she got very upset (poor sport). The new king (who is great for the role, btw--takes it seriously and tries really hard to be fair to everyone!) called a council, but they didn't resolve anything--some kids thought it unfair that someone get attcked twice in a row, others saw no problem with it. At that point personalities were entering into it so I called a halt for the day. Things I think I will tweak: -Some of the girls are uninterested in the raid/attack aspects. I think I'm going to give them the opportunity to become merchants/tradespeople cheap. Then they won't be susceptible to raids, but can just get involved in commerce. Since we don't have commerce yet anyway, that would be a good way to get some. -Reading through all the versions of the rules, I think I've been too lenient about attacks. I'm going to start charging them to attack each other (after all, going to war costs money), and also make some rules about who can attack whom. Only adjoining shires, and only allying with neighbors. After all, armies didn't come from across the country at the time they're at right now. -I'm thinking I need to put limits on how much they can do during a turn, and put strict time limits on the turns. They got so into it the first couple of days that I let that slide, and we can't afford the time anyway if we're to get our other projects done. -When the Vikings invade tomorrow, they're going to hit the alliance leader's land. (He has Cornwall, so it's logical.) We'll see what that does to things... The boys/girls split worries me a little. I think letting those interested fill the available merchant slots easily might help that a lot. They can go on their way, stay out of the raids, quietly accumulate their wealth...and the more aggressive and bloodthirsty kids can attack each other till they have nothing left...more or less what happened in period. Any other suggestions? Elasait From lis@wubios.wustl.edu Mon Jul 13 17:45:12 1998 Return-Path: lis@wubios.wustl.edu Received: from wubios.wustl.edu (wubios.wustl.edu [128.252.117.1]) by poet.minstrel.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA15271 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:45:09 -0500 Received: from folkvangar.highoak.net ([128.252.211.168]) by wubios.wustl.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA03371 Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:45:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980713174606.007936f0@wubios.wustl.edu> X-Sender: lis@wubios.wustl.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:46:06 -0500 To: Ben Tucker From: Lis Beaty-Schraer Subject: Re: Update & questions In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980708175828.00852d60@wubios.wustl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Status: RO X-Status: A At 07:22 PM 7/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >Sorry I didn't respond sooner, off running the W&W event this weekend. Figured that out right after I sent the message...how'd it go? OK, I'm about to do the Norman Invasion. How do I do that? Does William come in and reorganize everything? The kids and I are getting real confused about commerce, to wit: We have a mint now (he decided it would be more profitable than being a baron so he sold off his title). We also have a merchant. One bullion = one gold? And where does the merchant get bullion--from overseas, with part of the fleece? Also, I'm having a lot of trouble working grain into the economy. There is someone who wants to buy a mill now, so I need to figure that part out... Quite a few of the subjects of the realm are getting upset at the king, because he keeps raising taxes so he can afford to build fortifications (on his own land, of course!) I think Runnymede will happen on or even before schedule... What if they want to overthrow the king? How do they do that? Or will it matter after the Norman Invasion? BTW, a number of people have come in to see how this works, and asked if you're planning on publishing it! It's got real potential. Elasait From lis@wubios.wustl.edu Mon Jul 13 22:06:28 1998 Return-Path: lis@wubios.wustl.edu Received: from wubios.wustl.edu (wubios.wustl.edu [128.252.117.1]) by poet.minstrel.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA15940 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:06:27 -0500 Received: from folkvangar.highoak.net ([128.252.211.214]) by wubios.wustl.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA15714 Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:06:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980713220805.0087ac50@wubios.wustl.edu> X-Sender: lis@wubios.wustl.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:08:05 -0500 To: Ben Tucker From: Lis Beaty-Schraer Subject: Re: Update & questions In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980713174606.007936f0@wubios.wustl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Status: RO X-Status: A >> OK, I'm about to do the Norman Invasion. How do I do that? Does William >> come in and reorganize everything? > >William is you. The areas he conquers become norman areas, the people he >conquers become his vassals. If the king survives, he stays king, if the >normans get a majority of the shires (they probably won't) the norman >barons choose one of their own to be king). The only reason William won >was because they happened to kill Harold G. I don't think the battles are working quite right. How does fatality happen--just roll an unadjusted "one"? As for the soldiers...how many soldiers should William have? The kids, IF they all act together (big if) can command about 30, with mercenaries and all, unless they buy more. The king doesn't actually have much of an army...but he does have a stone castle. So the Duke can challenge the king if he wants, but the rest have to figure it out on their own. OK. We have one kid being paid what amounts to Danegeld (i.e. he pays lower taxes) because he told the king he'd overthrow him otherwise. Since he's not that powerful on his own, I wouldn't have bought it, but then I'm not eleven years old either. We *did* have to have a little talk with the king and remind him that he's only king when the game is going on, not at lunch or recess... Elasait